Host modulation is steppy (Resolved)

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Argitoth
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Host modulation is steppy (Resolved)

Post by Argitoth » 09 Jan 2008 14:27

I'm trying to modulate stuff in cubase such as the frequency cutoff of a synth, but it sounds steppy. I've tried the "MidiData" module, connected the value a control, sent the module to modulate the frequency cutoff, and it seems there's no way to modulate any parameter within the host without it being steppy.

I think it is steppy becuase the controls near the patch selector window only have 127 steps. It would be much better if there was as much steps as possible so that the host could create as smooth modulation as possible. As a matter of fact, I would remove 127 from KarmaFX alltogether. I say give all the controls in KarmaFX as many steps as is rational! :)

To illustrate:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9589/karmafxmm2.jpg
Last edited by Argitoth on 26 Jan 2008 17:01, edited 1 time in total.

Argitoth
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Post by Argitoth » 26 Jan 2008 01:22

Mr. Kasper, are you looking into this? I purchased KarmaFX to be my high-tech "precision instrument." If the host only has a possibility of modulating KarmaFX in 127 steps, it just can't fulfill this mission. I am forced to use my previously purchased synths more often than I want to.

Thanks! :)

Edit: FilterBank3 (my go-to filter) has 20,000 steps. The modulation sounds perfectly smooth to my ears. Maybe that'd be a good number to follow?

karmafx
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Post by karmafx » 26 Jan 2008 12:54

hmm... ok. i'll look into this and report back asap.

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Post by karmafx » 26 Jan 2008 13:01

btw: how does this filterbank3 thing handle 20000 steps when your'e controlling it using say a hardware midi controller? As far as I know you cannot get more that 127 steps from midi input (pitch bend wheel beeing the only exception)... :?:

Argitoth
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Post by Argitoth » 26 Jan 2008 17:00

OK, time to bring out the big guns, I'll post audio samples and screenshots.

...what the heck? KarmaFX is not steppy at all! It was completely my imagination that got the best of me. :oops:

To answer your question though, I know many hosts can modulate a VST without going through midi. It modulates the VST parameters directly, as if adding a built in mutli-point envelope to every parameter of a VST. See that blue line in my screenshot? That is an example of modulating a VST directly from the host.

As for the problem I originally posted, it doesn't exist. I really owe you some kick-azz audio demos of KarmaFX.

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Post by karmafx » 26 Jan 2008 20:01

hehe....great! Glad that is sorted out. :D

To be honest, I was a bit puzzled about the whole "step" thing :shock:, since a great deal of work is done to make things run as smooth as silk like the true analogs.

But if you run into any strange behaviour again, just let me know! 8)

fabi
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Post by fabi » 11 Jul 2008 22:51

sorry to bump this, but instead of opening a new topic right away i thought i'd search the forums first.

yes, apart from pitchbend MIDI CC are usually ranged 0-127.
BUT there is 14-bit midi, too, which uses two 7-bit CC simultaneously. I was surprised to see that you can only set the knobs in 128 steps.

so, does karmafx just interpolate between values to make the transitions from one value to another smoother, or are smaller values actually possible, but the module displays don't show them?

the behringer midi controllers bcr and bcf both support 14-bit midi and i just programmed them to be 14-bit midi all the way (apart from the buttons).

I will use vst parameters anyway, so that I can get parameter feedback (the LED rings around the knobs moving when I move a karmafx control with the mouse), but I was wondering if small settings are possible at all?

cheers,
fabian

karmafx
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Post by karmafx » 12 Jul 2008 00:16

fabi wrote:BUT there is 14-bit midi, too, which uses two 7-bit CC simultaneously. I was surprised to see that you can only set the knobs in 128 steps.
There is currently no special support for 7 bit CC's.
fabi wrote:so, does karmafx just interpolate between values to make the transitions from one value to another smoother, or are smaller values actually possible, but the module displays don't show them?
Generally, all knobs have extremely high precision, so even though you see the display showing 0-127 steps, you can reach in-between values. Take for instance the cutoff knob: you can move the knob so the frequency changes but while the step value is static.

However, for incoming midi using the MidiData module there is actually no interpolation. Midi is in 128 steps, period. But adding simple interpolation would be trivial, so if this is a problem, I'll look into it.

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Post by karmafx » 12 Jul 2008 09:57

I forgot to mention that you normally shouldn't experience the steppy'ness of any incoming midi, as parameters are smoothly interpolated.

The only case I can think of is if you route your mididata to the output, and try to draw a waveform or something using midi.

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Post by fabi » 12 Jul 2008 10:55

thanks for the replies, kasper.
since the modules do have a lot more 'invisible' steps than the 128 that you can see I guess I am happy the way it is.

i'll just use my host's (bidule) midi learn and all will be fine. i will have visual feedback on the bcr and 16384 steps instead of 128. :D

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